In this episode of the OpenEd podcast, we sit down with Kerry McDonald, a senior fellow at the Foundation for Economic Education, host of the LiberatED podcast, and a leading voice in the alternative education movement.

Kerry notes a dramatic change in how alternative education is viewed:

“Fifteen years ago, when our kids were young and we were homeschooling them, people would look at us quizzically and say, ‘Oh, I think I have a friend who did that. It seemed to work well for some folks.’ Fast forward to today… Now, the predominant response we get when we tell parents we homeschooled is, ‘I wish I could do that!'”

This shift reflects a growing dissatisfaction with traditional education models and an increasing awareness of alternatives.

What was the catalyst for this change?

Kerry suggests the pandemic may have been a turning point:

“When schools shut down and learning went remote for all of America’s schoolchildren, parents suddenly had to get creative. They realized they needed to take matters into their own hands.”

This forced experiment in remote learning opened many parents’ eyes to the possibilities of alternative education models.

We also discussed the blurring of lines between traditional and alternative education: “There’s this tremendous explosion of low-cost private schools. And again, with the rise of school choice policies, many of these schools are tuition-free or nearly so, making them much more accessible to more families.”

This blending of models is creating a whole new ecosystem of educational options, from micro-schools to homeschool collaboratives.

Technology has been another driver of this education revolution. Alternative schools don’t necessarily need an in-house calculus teacher when there are free resources like Khan Academy that can be integrated into the classroom. “Entrepreneurs always find really creative ways to like figure it out anyway and fill in those gaps,” she notes.

As with any revolution, there are growing pains. Sometimes regulators aren’t sure what to make of the new innovations.

However, she remains optimistic about the future, predicting continued growth in alternative education options and school choice policies.

As Kerry succinctly puts it, “Parents are just no longer putting up with sort of an outdated one-size-fits-all mass schooling system.”

The open education revolution is well underway, driven by parental demand, technological innovation, and a growing recognition that learning can and should be as unique as each individual child.

Chapters:

00:00 Reflecting on Education: Well-Schooled but Not Well-Educated

00:34 Introducing Carrie McDonald: A Force in Education Innovation

01:06 The Education Entrepreneurship Lab: Empowering Innovators

03:36 Carrie’s Journey: From Economics to Education

08:08 Discovering Homeschooling: A Pivotal Moment

11:52 The Rise of Alternative Education Models

13:41 Pandemic Pods and Parental Empowerment

17:17 The Future of Decentralized Education

20:07 The Rise of Homeschooling

21:03 Exploring Micro Schools

22:06 Adoption of Unconventional Education

23:30 The Middle Majority Embraces Alternatives

25:12 Blurring the Lines: Public vs. Private

27:36 Navigating State Regulations

35:40 Technology’s Role in Education

38:24 Predictions and Future Trends

40:45 Conclusion and Contact Information

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Transcript

Introduction (00:01)

Charlie Deist:

Hey everyone, welcome to the Open Ed podcast. I’m Charlie Deist, and today, we’re departing from our usual one-guest format. We have six people here from a program called Nature Kids Connect. It’s a community-based outdoor enrichment program. It’s not a full-time school, right?

Nature Kids Connect:

Yes.

A Day at Nature Kids Connect (00:36)

Charlie:

Annalise, can you describe how the program works and what a typical day looks like?

Annalise:

People either get dropped off or gather in the parking lot. We start with a nature-related game, then go on a hike to our sit spots for quiet reflection for about 30 minutes. After lunch, we have a themed activity, usually related to nature, followed by free time to explore.

Program Schedule (01:59)

Charlie:

How often does this program take place?

Nature Kids Connect:

It happens every Friday from 10:30 AM to 2:30 PM throughout the school year.

The Difference of Fridays (02:26)

Charlie:

Tondra, how does this outdoor day compare to your usual week?

Tondra:

Fridays feel special. It’s a break from the routine—getting outside and enjoying nature. I’ve been doing this since I was eight, and now I’m 15. But even though it’s fun, you have to be prepared for winter. If you forget gloves, you’ll feel the wrath of frostbite!

Dealing with Bad Weather (03:50)

Charlie:

What do you do if the weather is bad, like really rough?

Nature Kids Connect:

There was one time a storm rolled in while we were at Dippledale. It was so bad that we huddled against a hill until we had to leave early. A tree even got struck by lightning that day. But usually, we embrace the weather—rain, snow, or shine!

Outdoor Learning Experiences (05:16)

Charlie:

It sounds like you’ve had some intense learning moments outdoors. Have any of you had an experience during journaling that made a connection between something you learned in a more structured environment and what you saw outside?

Nature Kids Connect:

There was this time I found a bird murder scene—bird feathers everywhere, tracks, and poop. I thought it was a fox, but my mom said it was just a dog. Still, I journaled about it and felt like Sherlock Holmes!

Wild Animal Encounters (07:22)

Nature Kids Connect:

One time, I saw a coyote while sitting near a bridge. It was missing half its ear and eating something. I journaled about that too. Another time, on a backpacking trip, we saw a badger and even ran into a mama bear with her cub! We sprinted down the hill—it was terrifying but amazing!

Dimpledale Adventures (11:07)

Charlie:

Can you describe Dimpledale, the place where you spend most of your time?

Nature Kids Connect:

It’s a huge, 600-acre canyon park with mulch trails. There’s a lot of wildlife—foxes, weasels, deer, and even turkeys. Once, we stumbled upon a wasp nest, which was traumatizing!

Outdoor Social Interactions (12:52)

Charlie:

Do you think your friendships are different because they were formed outdoors?

Nature Kids Connect:

Absolutely! Running from a bear with your friends definitely strengthens bonds. We’ve done campouts where we slept in hammocks, stacked on top of each other. And one time, we cooked a whole pig over a fire—it was a wild experience!

Food Challenges (16:38)

Nature Kids Connect:

During campouts, we do a food challenge where we eat weird things like century eggs and chicken hearts. I was the only one who finished the challenge and got to eat a fully formed chicken inside an egg. It was crunchy!

Entrepreneurship Program (19:47)

Charlie:

I heard there’s also an entrepreneurship program. Can you tell us about that?

Nature Kids Connect:

Yes, we manage the website, social media, and expenses. We’re still new to it and haven’t faced many problems yet, but we’re excited about learning how to run the program.

Grand Canyon Trip (21:11)

Charlie:

You mentioned a Grand Canyon trip?

Nature Kids Connect:

Yes, we did a rim-to-rim hike—24 miles! It was mentally and physically challenging, especially the seven miles uphill at the end. But it was an unforgettable experience.

New Perspectives (24:28)

Charlie:

Ashurla, you just joined. How has this program impacted your other studies?

Ashurla:

It’s refreshing to do a class outside a building. After being in nature, I go back to my other studies with a recharged mindset.

Memorable Pranks (27:06)

Nature Kids Connect:

We love pranks! Once, we planted a granola bar that looked like poop and pretended it was fox poop. When we ate it in front of the younger kids, their faces were priceless!

Words of Wisdom (28:06)

Charlie:

Do you have any advice for someone who feels cooped up and might want to try something like this?

Nature Kids Connect:

Don’t knock it till you try it! You have to get your hands dirty at least once in life.

Screen Time and Technology (29:34)

Charlie:

What’s your take on screen time? Do you think your generation is figuring out how to balance it with real-world activities?

Nature Kids Connect:

At Nature Kids, phones are not allowed unless you’re taking pictures. It really helps us interact more with each other and focus on the experience. Technology can be useful, but it has its place.

Final Thoughts (35:00)

Charlie:

Thank you all for sharing your experiences! It’s been great to learn more about Nature Kids Connect, and I’m sure others will be inspired by what you do.

Nature Kids Connect:

Thanks for having us!