‍Ela Richmond and Isaac Morehouse talk with Michelle Rhee and Michael B. Horn about the future of work, apprenticeships, and helping young people thrive in a changing job market.

From K–12 reform to workforce innovation, this conversation covers why the college-for-all model is cracking, how apprenticeships can solve skills gaps, and the power of exposure, doing, and networks.

Key Takeaways:

• Why college-for-all is losing ground
• How employers can embrace hands-on learning
• The role of networks in career success
• Practical steps for parents guiding teens toward work readiness

Chapters:

(00:01) The Future of Work Panel

(01:00) From Schools to Startups

(02:42) Disrupting Higher Ed

(04:35) Reverse Career Path

(08:25) The Career Conversation Shift

(12:09) What Kids Really Want

(14:49) Exposure, Doing, and Networks

(19:08) The Apprenticeship Roadblock

(25:15) Sports Pipeline Playbook

(31:50) The Confidence Reps Method

(36:15) VR Training Gets Real

(47:28) Passion vs. Paycheck

(52:07) Breaking the Linear Career

(57:47) Parent Playbook Finale

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TRANSCRIPT

Introductions & Backgrounds

Ela Richmond: Today we’re hosting a panel on the future of work—how education connects to careers and what really lights kids up. Joining me are Michelle Rhee and Michael Horn. To start, give us your background so parents new to your work have context.

Michelle Rhee: I spent most of my career in K–12—running nonprofits, leading D.C. Public Schools, and then advocacy. Even back in 2007, employers were saying they couldn’t find the skilled workers they needed. I used that as a rallying cry in public education. Decades later, they were still saying the same thing. A colleague called about a software company focused on apprenticeships—BuildWithin—and I realized I could pursue the same goal more directly by helping people build skills on the job. That’s how I moved into workforce development.

Michael Horn: I came up through K–12 as well, working with Clay Christensen at Harvard Business School. We wrote Disrupting Class and I co-founded the Christensen Institute. Around 2010–11, higher ed folks told us, “You’re describing our universities—and disruption is actually happening here.” I saw how K–12 is downstream from higher ed: we define a “good” high school by where it sends students. If colleges are misfiring, the system behind them misfires. That led me to higher ed, then to how we think about skills and talent overall. I spent time at Guild Education, wrote Job Moves in November, and now work K-to-career on making pathways less linear—while still navigable.

Isaac: I started on the career side. In 2007–08, while fundraising for a nonprofit, business owners kept saying, “I can’t find anyone who can do anything,” while grads with debt said, “No one will hire me—maybe I’ll get a master’s to defer loans.” I launched a college alternative: a short bootcamp and then six-month paid apprenticeships. It worked at small scale. I tried to scale the “signal” piece with a startup called Crash—it crashed. The lesson: by 18–20, habits are hard to “de-school,” and it’s not very scalable. I moved earlier, into K–12, to change mindsets before the conveyor belt sets in.

The Landscape Shift: From “College for All” to Many Paths

Ela Richmond: How has the conversation changed over time?

Michelle Rhee: Reformers, myself included, over-indexed on “college for all.” We saw students from high-performing charters succeed academically, then take on debt, fail to graduate, or graduate without good prospects. Meanwhile, young people’s view of work changed. When we lived in a pricey L.A. apartment building, everyone was half our age. My husband asked what they did: cannabis, crypto, gaming, content creation—roles that didn’t exist ten years earlier, with no standard college pathway. Now there are countless opportunities, and neither young people nor adults know how to prepare for them.

Michael Horn: What kids want depends on context. A decade ago, “purpose” was the rallying cry. Now many say, “I’ll have a couple gigs that pay, and my purpose may be outside work.” Both are valid. What’s not true anymore is the model our institutions assume: four years of college, a 40-year ladder. People change jobs every four years on average; roughly a billion job switches happen annually worldwide. Careers swirl and loop—side hustles, non-linear moves. Schools can’t pretend the outside world can be kept at the door. We need porous boundaries.

Isaac: Start with exposure. Kids often don’t know what their parents actually do. Let them watch, ask questions, and see possibilities. YouTube helps: my kid watching Mark Rober now has a picture of a future I couldn’t easily give him.

Michelle Rhee: Exposure isn’t enough; doing matters. Employers say, “We need someone productive today,” so they poach rather than build. But every entry-level worker learns on the job—that’s an apprenticeship by another name. We had to help employers see that training is unavoidable and short-term poaching won’t solve long-term pipeline needs.

Michael Horn: Apprenticeships de-risk things for learners—you get paid while learning. Employers also need de-risking: financing structures, contracts, or public support so they don’t train people just to lose them. Youth apprenticeships raise supervision questions: how to provide real work without derailing the business. These are solvable design problems.

Isaac: Sports offer a model—feeder systems from youth up to elite levels. It’s not rigid guilds; kids can opt in and out. It suggests how to build pipelines.

Michael Horn: With a caution against over-specializing too early. Let kids be generalists before they narrow. And help them build social capital—most real jobs come through networks, especially as AI writes applications and filters them. Managers trust referrals over AI-to-AI interactions.

For Parents (and Homeschoolers): How to Start

Ela Richmond: Our audience is largely homeschool parents. Where should they begin?

Isaac: Don’t tackle the whole mountain. Find the lowest-hanging fruit: shadow someone for a day, try a small task. If it stinks, cross it off and try another.

Michael Horn: Solve the problem in front of you, not the one five years out. Homeschooling offers time and flexibility: use networks and other parents. Let kids follow interests and push gently beyond them to learn what they like—and don’t.

Michelle Rhee: Don’t underestimate durable skills. My daughters sat through calls where I hired, fired, and negotiated. I made them work service jobs—scoop ice cream, flip burgers, deal with unhappy customers. Those experiences built foundations that transfer everywhere.

Ela Richmond: When do you give real responsibility?

Michelle Rhee: Reps. Watch enough, then try. Confidence comes from pattern recognition.

Isaac: Let them help—even if it’s slower and messier. If you always say, “I’ll do it,” they never build the “I can try this” muscle.

Michelle Rhee: Employers face real constraints—deadlines, clients—which makes experimentation hard.

Isaac: Picture a checkout lane labeled “Apprentice Register.” Low-stakes tasks exist if we design for them.

Michael Horn: AI-driven simulations will matter: low-risk, realistic practice at scale. I’ve been skeptical of VR/AR, but pairing them with AI-generated scenarios is a tipping point.

Michelle Rhee: The best simulations will use real data. We can aggregate authentic classroom or sales moments and model what effective responses look like. We’re looking for founders doing that work across verticals.

Michael Horn: Tools that recorded real classrooms already have hours of labeled video—teacher talk time, interventions. Those data could power training sims.

Hiring, Bias, and Better Signals

Ela Richmond: Would simulations change hiring?

Michael Horn: Yes, but regulations around bias are strict. Ironically, degrees are among the most biased signals we use, yet task-based assessments face high burdens of proof. Employers are wary. We need valid, reliable, lower-barrier ways to evaluate real skills.

Michelle Rhee: Promotions and opportunities still flow through networks. One of our portfolio companies helps employers base talent decisions on performance data rather than relationships—building a “success DNA” and hiring to it. That can improve equity.

Ela Richmond: Could early assessments deter people who are uncomfortable at first?

Michael Horn: Map energy drivers. In our Job Moves research, a good job puts you just over 50% in flow—there’s always some “suck.” Teens should reflect on what activities energize or drain them, in detail (“leading the huddle,” “bouncing ideas,” not just “working with people”). Most graduates don’t know this about themselves. Tools like Future.me try to build that self-knowledge from actual experiences.

Purpose, Paychecks, and Engagement

Michelle Rhee: I’m hearing more young people say their job is for money so they can do what they love elsewhere. Our generation prized loving your job. Does the shift reduce engagement and innovation—or make people happier and thus better workers?

Isaac: We over-romanticized “find your passion,” which added stress. Work itself can be satisfying. The pendulum needed to swing back—just don’t let it swing too far.

Michael Horn: People find purpose in different places: through work, funded by work, or while figuring it out. But disengagement is real: about 70% report being checked out, half are actively looking, and “quiet quitting” is a thing. We need balance. Also, life is long. Clay Christensen started a doctorate at 40 with five kids. Beware climbing someone else’s ladder.

Ela Richmond: If purpose isn’t the driver, why job-hop?

Michael Horn: Push factors—bad manager, can’t pay bills, no time with kids—stack up. We identified 14 common pushes; three to five together trigger a switch. During the Great Resignation, about 100 million Americans left jobs; 75% regretted it within six months because they hadn’t defined what progress meant for them.

Isaac: Options can paralyze. People like endless possibilities more than commitment. Sometimes sticking through the dip is the way to the good part. Streaming culture trains us to skip at ten seconds; life doesn’t work like that.

Michael Horn: Teach trade-offs. Every path has an element you won’t like; choose which “suck” you’ll accept to get your top priority.

Final Advice for Parents

Ela Richmond: One piece of advice for parents designing an open education path from K–12 to career?

Isaac: Treat a kid earning their first dollar from a non-family member like a ribbon on the fridge. Frame it. Make value creation a celebrated milestone.

Michelle Rhee: Let your kids do hard things. Don’t smooth every road out of guilt. Friction builds capacity—and success.

Michael Horn: I’ll second Michelle. That’s the note to end on.

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