## 00:00 – Welcome & Why Dyslexia Myths Persist **Andrea:** Welcome back to the OpenEd podcast. I'm your sometimes host, Andrea Fife. We've got something a little different planned for this episode, and I have to say I'm really excited. Today's episode is for anyone teaching reading, especially those implementing intervention strategies for students with specific learning disabilities such as dyslexia. Now, we're going to use the word "teachers" a lot today because we're going to dive deep into pedagogy. But parents, that doesn't mean this episode isn't for you. Whether you're personally teaching reading in your home or partnering with external support, we know that involved parents are reading teachers. So as we get into it today, consider yourself at the center of this conversation. Every time we say "teachers," we do mean you. ## 02:00 – Meet the Experts: Kris Vassel & Jaime Lesko **Andrea:** I'd like to introduce you to our two expert guests today, because they're going to do most of the talking on this topic. First, meet **Jaime Lesko**, our Associate Director of Student Success here at [OpenEd](https://opened.com/). Jaime leads our tutoring services to support students in reaching their academic goals through targeted, data-informed instruction. Before stepping into this role, Jaime was a special education teacher at a small charter school in Salt Lake City, working closely with students who had moderate to severe disabilities. She is trained in the [Wilson Reading System](https://www.wilsonlanguage.com/programs/wilson-reading-system/), which follows the Orton-Gillingham approach, and played a key role in its school-wide implementation to better support the growing population of struggling readers. Jaime is passionate about making sure every student gets the support they need to thrive, especially when it comes to reading and foundational skills. **Jaime:** Thank you. Yes, thank you so much for that introduction. That's lovely. I am excited to also be joined by **Kris Vassel*, who is an expert reading interventionist who has dedicated her professional life to helping struggling readers develop the skills and motivation necessary to become successful readers. Kris began her educational career 23 years ago as a special education teacher for the Alpine School District in Utah. During that time, she trained both general and special educators in the district on assessments and interventions for struggling readers. She became a Wilson Reading System Level 2 certified Wilson Dyslexia therapist, as well as one of the first Wilson credentialed trainers in the state of Utah. In 2006, she began working for the [University of Utah Reading Clinic](https://uurc.utah.edu/) as a severe reading difficulties coordinator, research associate, and field site support staff. She trained special educators on effective reading assessments and interventions for struggling readers, received certification in additional intervention models, became a LETRS regional trainer, and presented to the Utah State Office of Education on effective reading interventions for at-risk readers. She left the UURC and used what she learned to open her own private reading business in Missouri. Today, she's here to share her expertise with all of us—and with all of you. **Kris:** Thank you so much, Jaime. I'm so happy to be here. **Andrea:** And I'm so glad that you both accepted my invitation to be on the podcast today. I am so excited to listen to the two of you swap stories, share your expertise, and I think that we'll all come away today having had a great conversation. So let's get started with a general conversation about dyslexia. ## 04:00 – The Most Harmful Myths (Vision, Reversals, and More) **Andrea:** Kris, as we were preparing for this episode, you mentioned to me a concern about the dyslexia myths that still exist and how that leads to ineffective approaches for struggling readers. Tell us more about what you're seeing. **Kris:** Sure. It's sad that unfortunately today there are still a lot of myths floating around when it comes to dyslexia—what it is, what it looks like, how it affects children. I'm seeing it both with parents, with educators, with administrators. Some of the top myths that I hear over and over again are things like children are seeing letters being reversed, or they have vision issues. And when you believe in those types of myths, it's going to take you down a different path. For example, right now in my particular area, a lot of educators and parents are coming to me saying that we're being told that my child needs colored overlays or they need vision therapy. And I'm not dismissing the fact that there are true vision issues and those things do exist. But that is not the right intervention for dyslexia, because dyslexia is not vision-based. There's a lot of research that backs that up. In fact, it is neurobiological in origin, so it is a language-based disability. It's in the brain, not the vision. ## 06:00 – The Biggest Myth: "Dyslexic Kids Can't Learn to Read" **Andrea:** That's incredible. I feel like we could do a whole podcast episode just on that—what is dyslexia. Jaime, in your experiences with intervention strategies, have you come across similar myths that have made it difficult for a student to access the appropriate type of support? **Jaime:** I think one of the biggest myths is that students with dyslexia can't learn to read. That's probably the biggest myth I've ever heard. Parents are like, "This is just too big of a struggle. It's too big for me to deal with." Even teachers—I've heard teachers say, "It's just something they have to deal with." That myth, for myself, just stabs me in the heart because it is possible. You just need the right tools, the right resources. It takes a lot of patience. It takes a lot of hard work. It's not going to come overnight. When I think of myths, that's the biggest one: that it's just not possible. And the fact of the matter is, it truly is possible. **Andrea:** That's great. I love that positive perspective, and it truly is possible. I know that something you're both passionate about is research-backed, data-based approaches to intervention. That's a really packed sentence. I'll be honest, I almost stopped listening, because I thought, "Oh, this sounds like there's going to be a lot of facts and figures—am I going to stay engaged here?" So talk to me about, for a person who's coming from outside the reading instructor world, what does it mean to be using research-based or data-backed strategies? ## 08:00 – What "Research-Based" Really Means **Kris:** Reading is very complex, and teaching reading really is rocket science. It's not something you can just do naturally. You have to be trained on how to do it. So "research-based" basically means it's backed by science, backed by research. There's a term that's been floating around recently—the Science of Reading—and a lot of people are hearing that term. There are a lot of misconceptions around it. Some people think it means a specific phonics program. In order to understand "research-based," we first need to address that term. It's really simple: the Science of Reading is a body of research done over five decades that answers the question, "How does the human brain learn to read?" And it's not just education—it's psychology, neurology, linguistics. All of those areas coming together, five decades of research to answer that question. So, in order to help children who have a language-based disability like dyslexia, it's important to use interventions that are backed by science, because then you know they're going to be effective. **Jaime:** I'll add to that. It's really interesting—when you talk about research-based approaches or programs, it really boils down to figuring out which method works best for your kid. It brings in all the approaches: can it be done visually, kinesthetically, auditorily? It really does bring in all the senses. Yes, teaching reading is complex and it is rocket science, but when you break it down, you just need to figure out which ways your student learns. That really, truly is not rocket science. It may take a while to get there, but once you utilize a system that integrates different modalities, you'll find the one that connects most with your kiddo. That's the art of not only teaching reading, but teaching in general. ## 10:00 – The Science of Reading Explained **Andrea:** So you both talked about systems and there being almost a script to follow, certain methodologies. I think that's what leads to the second part of the data. When we talk about intervention strategies relying on data, what does that mean? **Kris:** I have to jump back a little to answer that. In addition to the Science of Reading, "structured literacy" is a term that's been around since about 2014. It's a method of teaching reading that aligns with the findings of the Science of Reading. Structured literacy encompasses a broad range of literacy skills you want your struggling reader to know. It focuses on both foundational and higher-level reading and writing skills: phonological awareness, fluency, reading comprehension, written expression, vocabulary, morphology, language structure, and integrating all of that with oral language development. It's not just phonics, not just fluency, not just vocab—it's all of it. And it's delivered in a way that Jaime stated earlier: different modalities, multi-sensory, direct, explicit, systematic, cumulative. You start with one skill, add to it, and go back and review. All of these things are very important when working with struggling readers. ## 12:00 – Data-Driven Intervention: How to Know What's Working **Kris:** When you're working with these children, you need to constantly assess. Constantly assess your struggling readers—or any child, really. Then you adjust your intervention or instruction based on the individual student's needs. **Jaime:** While the word "assessment" can sound really scary and intimidating, without those benchmark touch points to see where your kiddo is at, it's really difficult to identify those struggling areas—which is when intervention takes place. You need regular data, those regular check-ins, to identify the areas your student is struggling in so you can bring in a different strategy. Maybe you need to approach it from a different angle, introduce a different modality or strategy for learning that concept. If you did, great, you can scaffold and move on. If not, it's extremely difficult to build on when there's a gap. It's like trying to climb a ladder and you're missing several rungs. You have to make space for those rungs and make sure they're intact in order to continue to build up. ## 14:00 – What "Intervention" and "Assessment" Actually Mean **Andrea:** We've talked about a lot of concepts, and a lot of things are coming back to the importance of structure. A word that I think parents might come across as they're learning more about these topics is "fidelity." So you've made your decision about the reading methodologies you want to use. What does it mean to implement that curriculum with fidelity? **Kris:** Great question. A curriculum is designed a specific way, and if it's backed by science and proven to work the way it's designed, if you don't deliver it the way it's designed, progress may be slow or non-existent. I'll give you an example: back when I was traveling in and out of schools in Utah, I came across a classroom where educators were struggling to help their struggling readers. They heard about the Wilson program, got excited, bought the material, but didn't get any training or certification. They just opened it up and started using it. When I showed up, they were honest—they were struggling to understand how to do it, even with a manual. There are certain ways to deliver it that can only be taught through training. Their students weren't making the progress they thought they would, and they were about to throw it in the trash and say it wasn't effective. That's just one example. **Jaime:** Similarly, I was also trained in the Wilson Reading Program, which uses the Orton-Gillingham approach. We used it as a tier two intervention and tied it in with our tier one curriculums as much as possible. We used the same benchmarks as the rest of the school, but used the Wilson Reading System to encourage students to progress faster and overcome the barriers they were meeting in their reading. ## 17:00 – The RTI (Response to Intervention) Framework **Kris:** Intervention is literally that—intervening. To unpack that a bit more, I have to bring up Response to Intervention, or RTI. Back in the day, when a child was trying to be put in special education, they used the discrepancy model: IQ test, achievement test, and if the gap was big enough, they qualified. It wasn't very effective. RTI came about in 2004 to dismiss the discrepancy model. It's a tiered framework: Tier 1 is regular classroom instruction, Tier 2 is small group, and Tier 3 is typically with a specialist. It's additive—you don't quit Tier 1 when you move to Tier 2 or 3. You do both. How do you know if it's working? That's where assessment comes in. If you're not collecting data, you don't know. That's when you intervene and provide a different type of curriculum, strategy, or methodology to help meet the student's needs at that time. **Andrea:** That was such an incredible description, Kris. For those watching the video, you'll see Jaime and I just grinning as you explained how important it is not to assume interventions happen in place of core instruction, but as a more holistic approach. You don't just say, "Oh, it isn't working, I'll abandon it entirely." It's, "This isn't quite working—what can be layered on or adjusted?" That's what I love about digging in and talking about being data-driven. It's a scientific approach: change one variable, see what has an impact. Excellent description. Anything you want to add, Jaime? **Jaime:** Just that, yeah, while the word assessment can sound scary, without those benchmarks, it's really difficult to identify struggling areas. You need those regular check-ins to see if your student understood the concept. If yes, you can build on it. If not, it's hard to scaffold when there's a gap—like climbing a ladder with missing rungs. You have to make sure those are intact to continue building up. ## 19:00 – Why Fidelity Matters: Curriculum & Training **Andrea:** So we've talked about a lot of concepts, and a lot of things are coming back to the importance of structure. A word that I think parents might come across as they're learning more about these topics is "fidelity." So you've made your decision about the reading methodologies you want to use. What does it mean to implement that curriculum with fidelity? **Kris:** Great question. A curriculum is designed a specific way, and if it's backed by science and proven to work the way it's designed, if you don't deliver it the way it's designed, progress may be slow or non-existent. I'll give you an example: back when I was traveling in and out of schools in Utah, I came across a classroom where educators were struggling to help their struggling readers. They heard about the Wilson program, got excited, bought the material, but didn't get any training or certification. They just opened it up and started using it. When I showed up, they were honest—they were struggling to understand how to do it, even with a manual. There are certain ways to deliver it that can only be taught through training. Their students weren't making the progress they thought they would, and they were about to throw it in the trash and say it wasn't effective. That's just one example. **Jaime:** Similarly, I was also trained in the Wilson Reading Program, which uses the Orton-Gillingham approach. We used it as a tier two intervention and tied it in with our tier one curriculums as much as possible. We used the same benchmarks as the rest of the school, but used the Wilson Reading System to encourage students to progress faster and overcome the barriers they were meeting in their reading. ## 22:00 – Choosing the Right Program: Orton-Gillingham, Wilson, Barton, and More **Andrea:** I get the sense that you're both talking about some specific curriculum. Is there a particular curriculum, or are there many curriculum options that are based in this same science-backed approach? What should a parent be looking for if they're seeking strategies aligned with the Science of Reading and structured literacy? **Kris:** Great question. I can't speak for tier one because my area of expertise is tier two and tier three. You probably heard the term Orton-Gillingham at the beginning of all this. A lot of people hear that but don't know what it means. Samuel Orton was a neuropsychiatrist who studied adult patients with brain injury. He paired with Anna Gillingham, a psychologist and educator, and together they created the Orton-Gillingham approach. There are lots of derivatives—people trained under them branched off and created their own interventions based on the same methods. All of them are direct and explicit, multi-sensory, with a lot of commonalities. The [Wilson Reading System](https://www.wilsonlanguage.com/programs/wilson-reading-system/) is the one I was trained in. Their tier one and two intervention is Fundations. There's also Just Words, [Lindamood-Bell](https://lindamoodbell.com/), Slingerland, [Barton](https://bartonreading.com/). Those are just some of the Orton-Gillingham type programs out there. **Jaime:** Similarly, I was also trained in the Wilson Reading Program, which uses the Orton-Gillingham approach. We used it as a tier two intervention and tied it in with our tier one curriculums as much as possible. We used the same benchmarks as the rest of the school, but used the Wilson Reading System to encourage students to progress faster and overcome the barriers they were meeting in their reading. ## 25:00 – The Investment Required: Training, Time, and Teamwork **Andrea:** It sounds incredible, but also really rigorous for the teacher. What advice do you have for a teacher or parent who wants to deliver this type of instruction? **Kris:** Maybe my story will motivate some people who are on the fence. When I began teaching, my first year, I used what I was taught in my undergrad program and quickly realized I didn't have what it took to help struggling readers. They weren't making progress. I started taking master's level classes—still didn't help. I got certified in Reading Recovery, which helped some students, but ultimately after a year or two, they ended up in special education. I wanted to help these kids. We actually had a parent threaten to sue our school district because she felt we didn't have what it took to help children with dyslexia. She was right. The special ed director asked if I was willing to get special training so we could avoid the lawsuit. I said yes, because I saw my students weren't making progress and I wanted to help them. The first day I sat in that Wilson workshop, it was like, this is the key. I put it into practice, and I had a supportive administrator who let me run my classroom how I wanted. It was eye-opening to see the difference. My students started making progress. Yes, it's rigorous and lengthy, but these kids need the best. They need us. It's not just one person—it takes a team. The educator, the parent, everyone wants what's best for the child. That's motivation: they deserve the best. ## 28:00 – Support for Homeschool & Open Ed Families **Andrea:** For a parent who can't get specialized training, what have you seen be successful for families who want the freedom to choose their own curriculum but need more support? **Jaime:** I had a similar experience when I started in the classroom. We were given a curriculum and told to teach, hoping kids would make progress. When parents said their kids weren't making progress, I was grasping at straws—using whatever I had access to: Bob books, Play-Doh, sand for writing words. As a parent or teacher, you grasp at whatever you have to help your students. We didn't jump straight to a big program like Wilson. We tried Heggerty, Lexia, Read 180—mini programs that weren't necessarily tier two interventions, just different curriculums that might touch what the student needed from a different angle. When I run into parents who say, "I just don't know what to do," a lot of it is exploratory learning, using all five senses, seeing what clicks. When parents become vulnerable and say, "This is the struggle," it opens up communication for others to share methods that worked for their kids. Those are opportunities for parents to open their minds to possibilities that might help their child meet their goals. ## 31:00 – When to Seek Professional Help (and the "Second Person Theory") **Andrea:** When would you recommend a parent explore the option of going beyond a general curriculum and seek specific tutoring strategies? **Kris:** Early intervention is key. Not waiting until they're much older—early intervention is more effective, faster, and cheaper than remediation. Educate yourself on reading disabilities. There are great books out there. Knowledge is power. If you know what to look for and the signs as early as preschool, you can intervene early, whether that's getting your own training or seeking a tutor or learning center that specializes in dyslexia. **Jaime:** As parents, it's easy to think, "I know all the answers." But sometimes you need a second person in your child's life who can say the same things you've been saying, and suddenly it clicks. I call it the "second person theory." Sometimes, just having a tutor or another adult say it makes all the difference. It's okay to swallow your pride and let someone else help your child. ## 34:00 – Reading at Home: Daily Habits That Make a Difference **Andrea:** I know you both have a lot of experience in tutoring. When would you recommend to a parent that they explore the option of going beyond just a general curriculum and look for more intentional tutoring strategies? **Kris:** Early intervention is key. Not waiting until they're much older—early intervention is more effective, faster, and cheaper than remediation. Educate yourself on reading disabilities. There are great books out there. Knowledge is power. If you know what to look for and the signs as early as preschool, you can intervene early, whether that's getting your own training or seeking a tutor or learning center that specializes in dyslexia. **Jaime:** Sometimes, as a parent, you need to swallow your pride and recognize that there might be a different person who needs to be that "second person" in your child's life. Sometimes, just having a tutor or another adult say the same thing you've been saying makes all the difference. I call it the "second person theory." It's okay to let someone else help your child if that's what they need. **Kris:** You can't leave reading to the tutor. Struggling readers are in a race against time. Reading daily at home—at least 20 minutes—is crucial for poor readers. Especially as they get older, the difficulty in text increases. Good readers consume millions of words per year, while poor readers read far less. Reading is a life skill, and like any skill, limited practice leads to limited improvement. There are certain tips I use with parents: have your child read aloud, especially younger readers. As they get older, incorporate silent reading with guided questions. Make sure the topic is interesting and at their independent or instructional reading level. If they're making more than one or two mistakes out of every ten words, the book is probably too hard. There are great resources to help parents know what level books are on, like [AR Book Find](http://www.arbookfind.com/), [ReadWorks](https://www.readworks.org/), and [CommonLit](https://www.commonlit.org/). ## 38:00 – How to Choose Books at the Right Level **Kris:** When your child is reading at home, make sure the topic is interesting and the book is at their independent or instructional reading level. If they're making more than one or two mistakes out of every ten words, the book is probably too hard. For both your sakes, go to an easier book. Use resources like [AR Book Find](http://www.arbookfind.com/) to check book levels, and sites like [ReadWorks](https://www.readworks.org/) and [CommonLit](https://www.commonlit.org/) for free printable texts. ## 40:00 – Handling Reading Errors & Building Confidence **Kris:** When your child is reading aloud and makes an error, encourage them to self-correct. If they finish the sentence and go back to fix it, praise them for self-correcting. Train yourself to wait before jumping in. Good readers self-correct. Depending on the error, help them sound out or chunk the word, but don't turn it into a phonics lesson—keep the focus on reading. Repetition is huge. Struggling readers sometimes need up to a thousand exposures to get a word in memory. If they struggle with a word, just keep repeating it. Don't get upset. Parents are the child's first teacher. Model reading, have books in your home, prioritize reading as a family. Kids learn more from our example than what we say. ## 42:00 – The Best Resources for Parents (Books, Websites, Programs) **Andrea:** If parents want to learn more and implement effective research-backed strategies at home, what is the first book or resource you recommend? **Kris:** There are a lot of books, but I'd recommend [Overcoming Dyslexia](https://www.amazon.com/Overcoming-Dyslexia-Second-Essential-Disabilities/dp/0679781595) by Sally Shaywitz and [What to Do About Dyslexia](https://www.amazon.com/What-About-Dyslexia-Essential-Parents/dp/1937761107) by Richard Selznick. Both are great starting points for parents. They lay out what to watch for, next steps, and types of assessments. **Jaime:** I would just go back to the basics: consistency, identifying areas of struggle, and introducing reading in lots of different ways. Bring reading into daily life—at the supermarket, reading recipes, everywhere. Make it a life skill, not a chore. Implement it every day, visually, auditorily, kinesthetically. You'll see your child grow. It takes time, but the earlier you can find and intervene, the better off your student will be. ## 44:00 – Final Advice: Patience, Celebration, and Next Steps **Kris:** Be patient with yourself and your child. For some, it's the first time going through this. Celebrate the baby steps—small progress is still progress. Kids need that celebration and positive reinforcement. **Jaime:** Make reading fun. Kids won't do it if it's not fun. **Andrea:** Thank you both so much. I am in awe of the work you do to personalize education for students. I hope you'll join me again for a follow-up episode. Thank you for joining me today on the OpenEd podcast. **Kris:** Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.