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Episode 005 – she almost gave up on education

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Andrea Fife – VP of Learning at OpenEd – almost quit teaching 10 years ago. Trying to personalize learning for every student in her 5th-grade classroom had taken its toll.

“I was so burned out I actually considered leaving education entirely,” Andrea shared in our recent podcast conversation.

Her own experiences as a student had uniquely prepared her to understand the value of personalized education.

“School was always very easy for me up until the point that I graduated from high school,” she recalls.

Then came college, where she lost a full-ride scholarship and found herself completely disengaged.

“I just stopped going,” Andrea admits.

“It wasn’t serving me. It wasn’t engaging.”

This experience led her to a pivotal realization about the nature of learning – one that would eventually transform not only her career but the educational experiences of thousands of families.

In our latest podcast episode, Andrea shares the remarkable turn of events that took her from college dropout to educational innovator and advocate. She also reveals the unconventional approach that reignited her passion for learning and ultimately led her to OpenEd.

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“If I could give any piece of my experience to all parents,” Andrea says, “it would be to see what I get to see.”

She explains how her role at OpenEd has given her a unique perspective:

“Because I have access to thousands of families and their weekly learning logs, the variety I’ve seen has changed my entire perspective on education.”

This exposure to hundreds – if not thousands – of different learning approaches has reinforced her belief in the power of personalized, open education.

Curious about how Andrea’s journey could change your perspective on education?

Tune in to the full episode to discover:

The unexpected connection between music and academic success
How one student’s “crazy” idea became a groundbreaking high school elective
What burnt-out teachers and struggling students have in common (and how to fix it)

Links and Resources:

Learn:

How traditional education can fail even high-achieving students
The transformative power of personalized learning approaches
Why one-size-fits-all education models are becoming obsolete
The importance of intrinsic motivation in effective learning
How burnout in teachers can lead to innovative educational solutions
The role of real-world experiences in shaping educational philosophies
The potential of district-partnered programs to revolutionize public education
Why flexibility in learning methods is crucial for student success
How exposure to diverse learning approaches can change educational perspectives
The impact of personalized education on student engagement and achievement
The value of combining traditional school resources with homeschooling flexibility
How to identify and nurture individual student passions within an educational framework

Transcript

[00:00:00] Introduction

Isaac Morehouse: Welcome back to the OpenEd podcast. I’m Isaac Morehouse, and today I’m joined by Andrea Fife, who is the head of learning at OpenEd. I’ve only been working with Andrea for a couple of months, but I can honestly say that in my 20 years in and around education, I don’t think I’ve ever met someone with such genuine intensity and passion for helping families get the best possible education they can. Andrea, I wanted to start by asking: Where does that intense passion come from? Why do you care so much about helping people maximize their education?

[00:01:18] Andrea’s Background in Education

Andrea Fife: That passion comes partly from my time in the classroom. I was a 5th-grade teacher for 10 years, and during that time, my approach changed from meeting general needs to trying to find every student who needed something extra and maximize their experience. That’s actually why I ended up leaving the classroom—it was unsustainable to try to meet each student’s individual needs every day. The environment wasn’t conducive to that level of personalization, and I was so burned out that I considered leaving education entirely.

Fortunately, I found this program that’s built on the idea of being able to maximize everything for every learner. The passion has always been there, but it definitely became more noticeable during my time in the classroom.

[00:02:55] Andrea’s Educational Experience

Isaac: Let’s rewind a bit to your own upbringing and educational experience. What was that like?

Andrea: Prior to my experiences at OpenEd, I would have said my experiences were fairly traditional. I spent most of my educational time in what you’d picture as a traditional classroom. But looking back, I realize that while my parents chose a fairly traditional setting, they made choices at every phase to personalize my education.

From enrolling me in a private school when I was young, to taking a teacher’s advice to have me skip a grade for a more challenging academic experience, to allowing me to choose between a more rigorous or social setting in middle school—there were constant adjustments. There was even a year when I went back to a private school and participated in a grade level that didn’t even exist. My mom called the school and said, “This isn’t working for Andrea. Can we bring her back? I know you don’t have an eighth grade, but can we put her there anyway? She’ll learn math on her own.”

[00:05:13] The Importance of Parental Initiative

Isaac: That gives me such insight into where you got some of this from—your mom was willing to say, “I don’t care that it doesn’t exist. I know what my daughter needs. Let’s make this work.” She recognized that you can ask for things that don’t already exist. You can customize.

Andrea: Absolutely. A huge part of that was her willingness to put in the work personally. She never demanded something from the system that didn’t exist. Instead, she’d say, “This doesn’t exist, but I think it could. If I’m willing to put in the time, can we create the space?”

For example, with that 8th grade experience, she said, “No extra work for the teacher. I’m not asking them to teach seventh and eighth grade math. We can handle the math at home. I’ll review the homework. Can she just independent study math during that particular block?” She always had this knack for seeing what already existed and figuring out how to supplement it to get the most out of both options.

[00:06:32] The Role of Music in Education

Isaac: You mentioned that your whole family is very into musical theater. Can you talk about the relationship between that and your own education, as well as your children’s education?

Andrea: Music and education are one and the same for me. I always say I can’t teach without singing, and I can’t sing without teaching. Even when I’m working with adults and we’re learning a song, I’m breaking it down into grammar lessons. If I’m teaching grammar, I’m teaching it through song. I got that from my mom—she’s the best educator I’ve ever known.

Learning to play the piano was a requirement in our household. When I was older, my mom explained that she knew I needed the challenge because some other things came really easily to me. She wanted me to learn that there were things I had to work hard for, and piano was that thing.

Later, when I wanted to do both singing and dancing but that didn’t exist as a class, my mom went to the dance studio and proposed teaching a class that combined both. She offered to teach for free if they’d let their other dance students enroll and provide the studio space. Music has always been learning, and learning has always been music in our house.

[00:11:04] The Importance of Challenges in Education

Isaac: I love what you said about piano. It’s a good reminder that while it’s important to let kids chase their interests and excel at what they’re good at, it’s also important to have some challenges. Your mom recognized that everything else was coming easy to you, and you needed to learn to struggle through some things.

As a homeschooling parent myself, we’ve done something similar with piano lessons. If everything in life is just stuff your parents are forcing you to do, you don’t learn much about being self-directed. But if there’s nothing that’s hard, something’s missing. There should be some things that are a challenge and that you have to force yourself to get over.

Andrea: One thing my mom was always careful about was preparing us for an adult world that wasn’t necessarily going to provide the same personalized experience. She wanted us to pursue our interests, but she also wanted us to understand that there are systems in the world that are more or less non-negotiable.

She wanted us to have personalized education opportunities and be interest-driven, but she didn’t want to go so far that we didn’t recognize when a system is a system and how to learn to thrive, adapt, and change what we did have control over to make it work. I really appreciate that she was able to find that balance.

[00:14:02] Teaching Kids to Make Choices

Isaac: That’s a great lesson. I’ve had similar conversations with my kids about the difference between what you have the right to do and what might be a good idea to do. Everything’s kind of a game, and you’ve got to decide which games you’re willing to play and which ones you’re willing to take the risk of not playing.

Andrea: I have a great story that relates to that. My son, who’s a senior in high school this year, was complaining about his AP World History class. I said, “Okay, don’t go.” He was shocked and said he had to go or he’d fail. I asked him who cares if he fails, and who says he has to graduate.

We got through to the end of this conversation, and he said, “I just wanted to complain, Mom. I want to go to history. I want to do well in this class.” I told him that was great, but I wanted to make sure he knew that the struggles he was having were a result of a choice he made to take that class. If at any point the class stops meeting his needs, he just needs to let me know.

[00:16:00] Andrea’s College Experience

Isaac: Let’s talk about your college experience. What was that like?

Andrea: School was always very easy for me up until I graduated from high school. Looking back, I attribute that to a very supportive environment and my mom personalizing every experience I had, even if it wasn’t at home. I didn’t realize this until I went off to college on a full tuition scholarship, which I lost really fast.

I chose a traditional university experience because that’s what everybody does, right? But it was awful for me. I had no idea you could test out of classes. I was a music therapy major at first, and despite 13 years of piano lessons, they put me in beginner-level music theory and keyboarding classes. I just stopped going because it wasn’t meeting my needs or engaging me.

I came back the next year and changed majors to English, against my mother’s advice. I made it about six or eight weeks before calling my parents and saying, “I’m coming home. I don’t know what I’m doing here.”

After coming home, I got a job at a real estate company where I discovered a passion for graphic design. That’s when I decided I wanted to go back to school to learn more about it. I found a different, non-traditional program where classes were only five weeks long, you take one class at a time, and it was interest-based. They had opportunities to test out of classes or take CLEP tests. It was much more personalized. I went from being a dropout to graduating with a 4.0 and going on to get a master’s in education from the same institution. It was a completely different experience.

[00:30:20] The Importance of Real-World Experience

Isaac: You’re speaking my language there. Unless and until you know what you want out of it, just assuming college comes after high school doesn’t make sense. The fact that you went to work, discovered your interest in graphic design, and then had a reason to go take those classes made all the difference.

There should be more focus on getting experience in different professions during or after high school. If I had a dollar for every lawyer I know who hates their job and wishes they hadn’t gone to law school, I’d be rich. If they had spent a year at a law firm and saw what most lawyers do all day, many of them would have changed their minds.

Andrea: It’s interesting as a parent now. I wish someone had told me I didn’t have to go to college straight out of high school. Now I say that to my kids, but I also need to be respectful of the fact that they might want to. That’s one of the most challenging things for me as a parent, especially working at OpenEd and learning about so many different approaches. When my kids tell me that going to college is aligned with their goals, I have to be willing to listen and say, “Great, then for you, that’s absolutely the right choice.”

[00:32:48] The Flexibility of Open Education

Isaac: This is what I love about what we’re trying to convey through this podcast and our content—this idea of open education. It’s not quite the same as any one alternative education approach. When my son first said he wanted to go to public school, there was a pride component that made it hard for me as someone known for alternative education. But you have to have some humility and recognize that it’s not about you, it’s about what the kids need at that given time.

Andrea: I love that your son identified why he wanted to be there—for social reasons and personal growth. Being able to pick and choose, make changes, or combine approaches—that’s the beauty of it. To break free of all the constraints and not feel like just because you chose something this year means you have to choose it always.

I’ve been trying to talk my youngest into a year of road schooling, and he’s not interested. I bought the trailer this summer, and I’m ready for it. But when I talk to him about it, he says he loves his classes and enjoys his experience. So I have to respect that, even though I’m the one who wants to go on the road and learn.

[00:36:29] Customizing Education Within Traditional Systems

Isaac: You told me something the other day about one of your sons creating an elective class for himself within the public school system. Can you share that story?

Andrea: We’re fortunate to be part of a forward-thinking public school district. They have a college and career center supported by local businesses, which base some of their curriculum on the skills these businesses say the workforce needs. My son who’s a senior this year did all the engineering classes offered at this center and got OSHA certified as a freshman.

He’s also really into performing arts, but there wasn’t a work-based learning opportunity that fit both his interests. So we proposed creating a work-based learning class for him that involved building sets for the school plays, combining his engineering skills with his love for theater.

We worked with the work-based learning coordinator and the theater teacher to set it up. Now, for third period this year, he’s earning high school credit for designing and building all the sets for his school’s productions, using the engineering skills he learned at the college and career center. It’s the best of all worlds—he’s thriving in something he loves, giving back to his school, and it meets all the traditional requirements for high school credit.

[00:41:36] The Power of Finding Solutions

Isaac: That’s amazing. It all gets unlocked from that moment when he said he was interested in something that didn’t exist, and you said, “That’s not good enough. We’ve got to find a way.” That’s what I find so fun about the OpenEd program—the amount of variety and creativity in what kind of customized learning these families do for their kids is just amazing.

[00:42:52] Andrea’s Vision for OpenEd

Isaac: What do you love most about what you see with the parents in OpenEd? And what are your goals? When do you say this program is doing what you want it to do for people?

Andrea: If I could give any piece of my experience to all parents, it would be to see what I get to see. Because I have access to thousands of families and their weekly learning logs, the variety I’ve seen has changed my entire perspective on education. It’s changed how I parent and all my philosophies of education.

I used to be very rigid, thinking there was one best way. But that first six months here was very humbling. I realized there are so many ways, and kids are thriving in so many different approaches. If I could give that perspective to others—the ability to see thousands of different approaches and find value in every single one of them—that would be amazing.

As for my goals, I want there not to be a “no.” For any family or student who can identify their goal, I want us to have a way to get them there. Part of that is also helping kids express their goals, which often involves deconstructing the traditional narrative of what’s possible.

My ultimate goal is that no matter what someone says their goal is, I already have a list of ways to help them access it. That’s what success looks like to me—not taking no for an answer and finding a way to get to yes for every learner.

Isaac: I love it. Andrea, thank you so much for joining us. Thanks everybody for joining this episode of the OpenEd podcast.