Episode 014 – Stop Outsourcing Your Child’s Education
From factory settings to farm life, Apogee Strong founder Matt Beaudreau reveals why traditional schooling may be holding your child back. Learn how real education happens outside the classroom and why parents are better equipped than “experts” to guide their children’s learning. Matt shares insights from his journey founding his microschool network, working at Stanford, and transforming education for thousands of families.
Highlights:
The Problem with Traditional Education
“I differentiate education and schooling. Schooling to me is one very specific religion, whereas education is humans getting better, designing their lives, you know, through to ultimately get to sovereignty and however they define that.”
Why Education Must Be Personal
“Education is wildly personal. That’s the problem. That’s the disconnect. Our systems aren’t built wildly personal, but education’s wildly personal.”
Rethinking Success in Education
“Success ultimately ends up being in the eye of the beholder. And that’s the key component of sovereignty is that the individual decides how does she or how does he define success in all of these various arenas.”
The Power of Natural Learning
“Really the ability to just simplify something is not even necessarily a new idea. Sometimes it’s just like, we kind of already knew that, right? It’s kind of the factory setting we were born with.”
Experience Over Theory
“That’s the best way to learn is go play. Go try. And then all of a sudden the academic side of it makes sense. Now when I’m learning about follow through and okay that makes sense because I’ve actually done it.”
Parents as Natural Teachers
“The reality is I’m still figuring it out. That’s the game. People think that you figure it out, meaning you get steps one through 10 and you’re looking for that list… The start point is birth, the finish point is death.”
On Maintaining Curiosity
“It’s not hard to stay curious when you’re not distracted. And that’s not just a parent thing. That’s a person thing. It’s not hard for young people to stay super curious when we don’t have a bevy of distractions in front of them.”
The Transfer of a Way of Life
“GK Chesterton said, education is the transfer of a way of life. It’s not about subjects, it’s a transfer of a way of life. So we’re transferring our way of life to them, while also just paying attention to who they uniquely are.”
Taking Action Over Perfect Planning
“Get a general roadmap, basic roadmap, a basic idea of where you think you wanna go, and let’s just start. Just start. It’s not ready, aim, fire. It’s fire, ready.”
Closing Thought
“Fix yourself first. The most simple way to educate a young human is for you to be the adult who’s leading by example. And you just simply bring them along.”
Chapters:
00:00 Introduction – From Stanford Professor to Education Reformer: Matt’s Journey
02:38 Education Isn’t Political – Why Traditional Schooling Is a Management System, Not True Education
05:11 Individualized Education – Breaking Free from Standardization: How Every Child Learns Differently
09:29 Fundamentals of Education – The Two Categories: Universal Skills vs. Context-Specific Learning
14:29 Defining Success – Beyond Grades & Degrees: How to Measure What Really Matters in Education
18:51 Simplifying Education – Returning to Natural Learning: Stripping Away Educational Complexity
26:11 Lightbulb Moments – When Parents Question the System: Signs It’s Time for Change
34:07 Transfer of a Way of Life – Education Through Living: Why Learning Isn’t About Subjects
37:00 Socratic Conversations at Home – Making Dinner Table Discussions Your Best Teaching Tool
44:41 Parents Are the Experts – Why You Know Better Than the “Experts”: Trusting Parental Instincts
48:43 The Value of Experience – Hands-On vs. Theory: Why Real-World Learning Beats Books
Transcript
[00:00] Introduction
Ela Richmond:
Welcome to the podcast, Matt Beaudreau. How are you?
Matt Beaudreau:
Great to see you, my friend. It’s been about two years since we did this last, so life is good, and it looks like it’s going well for you too. I’m excited to chat.
[00:15] Background in Education
Ela:
You’ve been in education much longer than I have. Can you give a little background on your experience?
Matt:
Sure, I differentiate education and schooling. Schooling is like a religion, but education is about humans getting better and designing their lives. I was a really good student but ended up not knowing who I was. I worked at Stanford University, public and private schools, and eventually realized the traditional system wasn’t for me. I launched my own campuses and started consulting for Fortune 500s. Now, we have our own K-12 campuses under the Apogee umbrella, mentorship programs, and a university system on the way. I even run a farm now—so I’m never short of things to do!
[02:38] Education Isn’t Political
Ela:
I love your background. One thing I want to reflect on is the idea that how we educate children isn’t a political question—it’s about humanity. I remember you saying you wanted to teach in a different way than you were told to. Is that right?
Matt:
Exactly. The traditional system is a conveyor belt. It’s all about grades, subjects, lectures, and standardized tests. But humans don’t learn that way. When I researched it, I found it’s more of a behavioral management system. If we standardized food or medication like we do education, people would be outraged. But we don’t ask the same questions when it comes to education.
[05:11] Individualized Education
Ela:
It’s interesting because we know children are unique, but when it comes to how they should be educated, we hesitate. Parents who decide not to send their children to traditional school carry a lot of burden. How did you figure it out for your family?
Matt:
It’s a constant journey. People want a roadmap, but human growth doesn’t work that way. There’s no clear start or finish. It’s birth to death—constantly adapting and evolving. For me, it’s about moving myself forward, then bringing my kids along. It becomes normal for them, and we pay attention to their unique interests. Education is about transferring a way of life, not subjects.
[09:29] Fundamentals of Education
Ela:
Are there fundamentals that help children do better? We’ve traditionally focused on core subjects like reading and math, but what are the true fundamentals?
Matt:
I see two categories: the “for all” fundamentals and the “for us” fundamentals. The “for all” fundamentals are things like communication, critical thinking, and understanding your physical health. But beyond that, it becomes specific to your current situation. For example, I live on a farm now, so I’ve had to learn things like growing food and fixing fences—skills I didn’t need when I lived in California.
[14:29] Defining Success
Ela:
I’ve been learning about the cognitive hypothesis, where success was tied to IQ. But success can look very different depending on the situation. What’s your take on creating successful humans?
Matt:
Success is in the eye of the beholder. It’s about defining what success looks like in different areas of life—finances, health, relationships—and having the skills to achieve it. For me, sovereignty means I don’t have to answer to anyone, including the government. It’s about adapting to life’s changes and continuously moving forward.
[18:51] Simplifying Education
Ela:
Naval Ravikant has a way of simplifying things. You mentioned how we can simplify education. Can you expand on that?
Matt:
Absolutely. A lot of education is about stripping away the nonsense and returning to what I call “factory settings.” Kids are born with curiosity and wonder, but it’s trained out of them. As adults, we often need to unlearn all the extra stuff and get back to simplicity—just like Naval does.
[19:50] Choosing What You Want
Ela:
Before recording, we talked about the challenge parents face in choosing what they want for their children’s education. How do parents figure out what they want when they’ve always been told what to want?
Matt:
That’s the hard part. You can’t tell someone what their favorite food is at a buffet. You just have to try things. It’s the same with education. Start with a general roadmap, try things, get feedback, and adjust as you go. The biggest obstacle is our own fear of doing things “wrong.”
[22:38] Common Parental Concerns
Ela:
What are the most common concerns parents bring to you about alternative education?
Matt:
It’s almost always about socialization, college, or prom—concerns rooted in the traditional school system. But the real issue is emotional attachment to what they know, even if they recognize it’s not working. People fear the unknown, even when the known isn’t great.
[26:11] Lightbulb Moments
Ela:
Was that your experience? Did you have a lightbulb moment that made you question the system?
Matt:
Yes, I had my lightbulb moment, but it’s similar for most parents who come to us. They know something’s not working but struggle to break away from the system. For many, it’s easier to stick with what they know, even if it doesn’t serve their kids.
[27:36] Possibilities in Education
Ela:
We’re at an interesting point in education where people are asking questions. There are so many resources and opportunities. What excites you about the possibilities?
Matt:
It’s exciting for people like us who can see the potential and are willing to adapt. But many are scared of the unknown. They hold on to sinking ships because it’s familiar, rather than exploring what’s possible. It’s a mindset difference.
[30:07] The Fear of Taking Responsibility
Ela:
At the ground level, parents face the fear of taking responsibility for their kids’ education. It’s easy to rely on the predictability of traditional school. How can parents overcome this fear?
Matt:
It’s about recognizing that certainty isn’t always better. You have to trust yourself and your ability to adapt. The best advice I can give is to focus on being the best version of yourself. Your kids will follow your example.
[34:07] Transfer of a Way of Life
Ela:
We were also talking about the idea of education being a transfer of a way of life. How do you view the different schooling options available to parents?
Matt:
The options are infinite. We often limit education to the school model, but everything can be educational. There are so many different paths—homeschooling, private schools, mentorship programs, etc. It’s about finding what works for your family.
[37:00] Socratic Conversations at Home
Ela:
You mentioned having Socratic discussions at your dinner table. How do you promote that at home?
Matt:
We make reading fun and encourage open conversations about books. We ask thought-provoking questions, put the kids in scenarios, and have them defend their choices. It’s a fun way for the whole family to engage in meaningful discussions.
[38:30] Staying Curious
Ela:
Is it hard to stay curious as a parent?
Matt:
Not if you’re not distracted. When parents are engaged and not caught up in distractions like social media, curiosity comes naturally. You want to know your kids, and you want to explore things together. It’s inherent if you’re present.
[40:03] Outsourcing Education
Ela:
Why do you think parents started believing they needed to outsource education to “experts”?
Matt:
It’s systemic. Over time, we’ve been conditioned to believe we need experts for everything. But in reality, parents are the best positioned to guide their children because they know them best. The system is designed to perpetuate itself, and that’s what we need to challenge.
[44:41] Parents Are the Experts
Ela:
Parents are the most incentivized people to do what’s right for their children. They know their kids best. How do you see that play out?
Matt:
Exactly. Parents understand their children better than anyone else. They can decode things no one else can. It’s about trusting yourself and challenging the idea that someone else knows your child better than you do.
[46:42] The Need for Mentorship
Ela:
Why did you start Apogee as a mentorship program? What gap were you trying to fill?
Matt:
People often don’t know where to start. We provide a roadmap and walk alongside them, offering experiences and mentorship from experts in various fields. It’s about giving direction and support as they figure out their own path.
[48:43] The Value of Experience
Ela:
We’ve been talking about the importance of experience. What does it do to a child when they only learn through books, not through hands-on experience?
Matt:
Books can spark interest, but without real-world application, it gives a false perception of what that interest truly is. I often use sports as an analogy. You could study basketball for 12 years, memorize stats, learn plays, but if you’ve never actually played the game, you won’t be good at it. You might not even know if you enjoy it. Experience is essential. Once you try something, the theoretical knowledge makes sense. It’s inefficient to stay stuck in theory without practice.
[50:02] The Disconnect Between Theory and Practice
Matt:
I had an MBA professor at an Ivy League school tell me my business model wouldn’t work, even though my businesses were making seven figures. He’d never started a business himself. He also criticized my parenting, but my kids were thriving—writing books, buying horses, and being incredibly mature. It’s easy to theorize from an ivory tower, but without experience, the advice only goes so far.
[52:23] Final Thoughts and Gratitude
Ela:
This has been such an enlightening conversation. When I started looking into alternative education, you were one of the first people I knew I had to talk to. Thank you for sharing your wisdom and insights.
Matt:
The honor is mine. Thank you for the work you’re doing. We’ve got a lot of people to help shake up and start thinking differently, and your work matters in that space. I’m grateful for what you’re doing.
Ela:
Maybe one day we can collaborate.
Matt:
That would be my pleasure.
Ela:
I love it. Thank you so much!
This edited version of the transcript is polished and organized into clear chapters. Let me know if you need any further adjustments!