After 12 years in public education, Peggy couldn’t ignore what her training in human development was telling her – the system wasn’t working for kids. Now running Apogee Utah, she shares how giving children autonomy, respecting their developmental needs, and allowing them to fail forward has transformed their learning experience. From 15-minute lunch breaks to rigid testing schedules, she reveals what really happens in traditional classrooms and how there’s a better way forward.

In this powerful conversation, Peggy shares:

• Why traditional classroom structures often don’t serve children’s developmental needs
• How giving children autonomy over basic needs builds responsibility
• The importance of letting children fail forward
• Why age integration benefits both younger and older students
• How “would you rather” questions build confidence in decision-making

#AlternativeEducation #Homeschooling #Education #OpenEd #LearningRevolution #EducationReform #TeacherStories

Chapters:

0:00 – Introduction

0:13 – From Public School Teacher to Alternative Education

6:24 – Understanding Developmental Appropriateness

12:10 – The Apogee Approach

26:36 – Daily Structure at Apogee

25:10 – Age Integration

27:59 – Building Confidence Through Understanding

36:49 – Socratic Discussions

40:11 – Final Thoughts on Growth

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Transcript

Introduction [00:00]

Ela: Welcome back to the OpenEd podcast. I’m Ela, your sometimes host, and today I’m joined by Peggy.

Peggy: Thank you, Ela. I’m looking forward to this conversation.

From Public School Teacher to Alternative Education [00:13]

Ela: You’re a mom of two who recently opened Apogee in Utah this September. Before we discuss that, I’d love to hear your story – you were a public school teacher for 12 years.

Peggy: Yes, it wasn’t a lighthearted decision to leave. I had my college degree in human development and a master’s in early elementary education. I started in a Title I school as a first-grade teacher, excited to change the world. I joined every committee possible – PTA and various subcommittees – thinking I could have input on education. But I wasn’t seeing the changes I went to college for implemented.

I knew what was best for kids with my human development background. They needed to be outside playing. Testing wasn’t appropriate. I was frequently at the district office advocating against testing. I’d spend a month each year teaching kids how to test, then giving tests – wasting valuable time for these little people.

Having my own children in 2020 and 2021 changed my perspective. Going back to teach after my first baby, I realized I couldn’t support a system I knew wouldn’t be good for my kids. Sitting behind desks and being repeatedly told they’re failing wasn’t developmentally appropriate. It didn’t match who I was or my soul.

Understanding Developmental Appropriateness [06:24]

Ela: What’s an example of something not being developmentally appropriate?

Peggy: The biggest issues were recess time and desk time. We’d have kids sit at desks for 90-minute blocks without movement. They had to walk in single-file lines instead of naturally. We gave them 15 minutes of recess and 20 minutes combined for lunch and recess. Kids would rush through eating to get outside because their bodies craved movement.

Testing was another huge issue. We spent so much time teaching young children how to fill in bubbles rather than focusing on learning. We’d show parents test scores with red marks indicating negative performance, which was defeating for both parents and children.

The Apogee Approach [12:10]

Peggy: At Apogee, we’ve spent our first eight weeks “unschooling” kids from traditional systems. We teach them autonomy – they don’t need to ask permission for basic needs like using the restroom or getting water. They just need to be respectful.

We give them an hour for lunch and play. They can eat, play, come back to eat more – following their natural rhythms. We’re teaching them to listen to their bodies while maintaining respectful behavior.

Daily Structure at Apogee [26:36]

The day begins with students working on their interests – some work on RC cars, others read or build with materials. We then do our “physiology first” workout outside. During our work cycle, we focus on individualized learning at appropriate levels.

After lunch and outdoor time, we do project-based learning with themes that integrate core academics. We end the day with character call-outs, gratitude, meditation, reading, and cleaning our space together.

Age Integration [25:10]

We have two studios: ages 4-6 and 7-12. While separated for academic work, we come together for morning workouts, lunch, and daily Socratic discussions. Watching the older kids interact with younger ones brings a wonderful perspective to education.

Building Confidence Through Understanding [27:59]

One of our key approaches is meeting students where they are academically, regardless of grade-level expectations. We focus on building solid foundational skills and confidence rather than pushing students through material they’re not ready for.

Socratic Discussions [36:49]

We often use “would you rather” questions to help students develop confidence in expressing and defending their viewpoints. It’s challenging for many to disagree with friends or stand firm in their opinions, but these skills are crucial for development.

Final Thoughts on Growth [40:11]

Peggy: The most important lesson I’ve learned is that growth is essential at every stage of life. The Apogee program brought that mindset back to my front door. In just 11 months, I’ve grown more than I imagined possible, both personally and professionally. It’s about creating strong families and maintaining a growth mindset for everyone involved.